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Some Units I think need balancing (No Rage) | Feb 8th, 01:03am | |
obviously you havent read my last paragraph that combo was randomly made (first thing that came to me as an example)... oh well i gues i got a litlle offtopic on my last post so i will make up for it :D Sentry - the name is kinda cool (and everything else about it is great) so overal a fine unit (cool new look too) infesters are i think hole as unit (maybe minor changes on the abilities but they are cool) so dont touch it :D Immortals are like the tanks of the toss army (and sorry but half of the terran units do 10 or more dmg so its kinda good unit against terran,and even toss itself; only against ultras for zerg i gues) hellions - ok that idea few pages back about having speed upgrate for helions to match its current speed is great i think (but that way no gas for hellions cuz it will make terrans way gas heavy) MARAUDERS - the number 1 feared unit in the whole SC2 univers :D:D (its so great that even air units are afraid of it - even thou marauders cant shoot at them :D ) well wasnt that hularious :D so back to the point - zerglings/zealot suround is deadly for marauders ; immortals are deadly for marauders (in a way); marauders since BR3 have 120 hp (just take a closer look and you will see it ), they shoot twise (meaning double armor reduction), stim (almost no info about how it works on marauders so dont make asumbsions about it),slow grenades - they slow EVERY unit no mater of the tipe; the damage they do is still in flux (it was from 6*2 + 6*2 then 5*2+5*2 )either way 10 or 12 dmg who cares the unit is as masable as zealots/stalkers... so no place to panic over its 120 hp in mid/end game its nothing (immortals have 380 hp+sp, even zealots have more and they are T1 unit and cost no gas!!! ) overseer - its a caster thats why it costs lots of gas (plus bigger sight range, detector) alot of functions in 1 unit (ok you dont like cuz it makes it way complicated then before but thats the case deal with it ) , as what i know it has changeling , some sort of uber heal that can be used on buildings too (again its old info so dont know if its still corect) , but if thats the unit in its final state sorry but its raly good one (and cost worthy)
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"You can't outrun Death forever.But you can make the Bastard work for it." |
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| Feb 8th, 12:53pm | |
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Ah yes,the war against Maruaders rages on!Maruader need one of the following to be remove and/or fixed.
-Remove stim -Higher cost -Lower health (125 is massive!!!) -Remove concussion gernades with a -2 damage reduction OR lower health. Now when it comes down to the Hellion,I want some gas in there!Fire needs gas so it may burn.Lets say 50m,50g?Or maybe 75m 25g? The factory is fine.Teching is apart of Terran culture,and greatly praise by me.If not for teching,Terrans would be owned by Protoss,since Marines and such are useless,especially after Stalkers and such come into play.Teching,however,does not work out with Zerg,since mass kill them. When it comes to Protoss,there are,I think,just a few changes to be made in the game,such as name,price and maybe,MAYBE damage. Zerg need help.At this rate,there hearts will go ka-boom and splat,and they will just be "there",lay "there" in the game.They need some damages up,here and there,and Roach NEEDS to ATLEAST get a "nerfed" version of regeneration of health above ground.Id say either after a fight,or 1 health every 2 seconds. As other units go,there fine.But on thing still bothers me.Marines,Reapers AND Maruaders ALL have stim.We need to fix that. -Jellybeans
Jellybeans are deadly;you have to be a man to eat cheesedoodles,and the same with this!
-------------------------------------------------- Make me laugh and I will give you something nice |
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| Feb 8th, 02:37pm | |
I probably shouldn't have dignified this with a reply, but in case you were serious, no. Hydras owned archons in SC1 because they had three times the range and the archon was difficult to move and had a delayed attack. By the time the archon was in range and firing, it was already dead with 6+ hydras. Hellions have the same range as hydras and are faster at moving around. In other words, if two forces are attacked moved at each other, the hellions will hit with more faster (faster positioning around closest enemy hydra). So if hydras are going to win, it will be entirely because of rate of fire which is listed the same in the armory. Hydras might counter hellions, but it seems really soft unless there is a recent video that shows otherwise.
Seems like the biggest problem is mis or old information, of which I am no doubt also guilty. I am sure that the overseer has no healing spell. While I agree that comparing the overseer to the SC1 overlord is misguided, I also feel it is misguided to compare it to the raven. The fact that Blizzard has announced it is redoing its spells, indicates that our suspicions of underpoweredness were not entirely off. Things to remember: The extra supply provided by the overseer is almost certainly countered exactly by the supply it consumes (else it would be OP with a caster that has no supply). Its sight range increases while stationary, but it seems (please show me that I am wrong) that the detection does not. I too am hoping that the overseer will get at least one good support spell (AoE acid spores?) to make it worth the expense and risk. I'm also not really a big fan of the changeling. |
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| Feb 8th, 06:34pm | |
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I didn't really comment on the whole Hellion vs Hydra debate earlier so now seems as good as time as any. I don't really see how people are coming up with Hydras winning the fight. Sure if you have more they will, but that can be said with almost any unit match up.
Look at the stats. Both cost about the same, both have the same range, but the Hellion has 10 more hp, is faster, and can be buffed to do 20 linear splash damage to light where as Hydras can only do 8+4 to Hellions. How is the Hydra gonna beat a unit that does almost double it's dmg and has 10 more hp? Sorry, I don't see it happening. Roaches seem like much better counter to Hellions early game, and then Mutas mid game. As for the Overseer, that's an interesting question. I wonder if it does cost any supply? I have yet to see anywhere that it does, so in theory I guess you could mass as many as your resources allow? None of it's abilities would really be too OP en mass (save maybe spores, but there might be other limiting factors there like a stack limit) so I guess it makes sense. |
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| Feb 8th, 06:38pm | |
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Thats a really good point...if overseer's dont require any supply points you could theoretically make as many of them as you want. If they have acid spores they could be pretty devestating once both players hit 200 supply
Its time to say GG starcraft, you are morphing into a Lair
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| Feb 8th, 06:58pm | |
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If anyone has played warcraft 3 the frozen throne I think you'll quickly realize that the maruader and the huntress have alot in common. Looking at it in pure stats the huntress looks WAY WAY WAAAAAAAY overpowered...I mean they are fast movement speed, tons of hp, bouncing attack, tier 1 unit...simply unstoppable whaaaaaa. Compared to every other race they are obviously the best tier one unit...but wait. In the beginning, all the noobs are gonna get stomped by mass huntress rush, but once you begin to understand the game you'll realize that anyone who knows what they are doing can stop huntresses quite easily and they are NOT in fact...a godly overpowered unit. Maurader is fine. Learn to adapt.
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| Feb 8th, 06:58pm | |
Good point. I forgot that hydras were light, not armored as I thought them to be. |
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| Feb 8th, 08:22pm | |
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marauders cant shoot air... people like to pretend like that doesnt matter..
also.. when it says +6 to armor... that means it does 3 ON EACH HIT!!! not 6 on each hit for a bonus of 12.. i dont care what anyone on here tells you... thats not how it is... it will not do DOUBLE to armor... whenever they give a bonus, they give u the total bonus.. so if its 2 shots... that 6 is divided by 2.... i dont understand why this is so hard to understand... the marauder is FINE and does NOT NEED TO BE CHANGED... stop pissing your pants because the terran actually has a decent unit that can hold its own on the ground... stinking protoss people were so spoiled with goons and same with zerg with hydras... man up and stop crying not to mention... a zealot will beat a marauder 1 on 1.... SO WHAT IS THE FREAKING BIG DEAL?!?!?!? |
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| Feb 8th, 08:35pm | |
And why won't it do double damage? Have you bothered looking at the Immortal, Hellion, Roach, or Baneling? They all do double their normal damage in bonus damage. some like the Baneling even do MORE bonus damage than normal damage! |
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| Feb 9th, 12:15am | |
Big Deal: Hydra and Marauder costs nearly same BUT 1) Marauder has +50 more life 2) Marauder has slowing effect 3) Marauder has stim and loses only 10 life for it 4) Actually Marauder does bonus +12 (6x2 )damage to armored, not +6 Look here for evidence Just because marauder can't attack air means that it should have stim, +50 more life, large bonus attack on armored, and slowing effect WHEN ITS COST IS SIMILAR TO HYDRA (100 min, 25 gas)? Why does marauder gets all good stuff and not hydra? Does 25 mineral difference in cost merits all those things that hydra don't have? I'd like to produce 125 HP hydra too! Even though maruader can't attack air, Terran players will always have marines (only 50 min) to back it up. Even though maruader can't attack air, they're too good compared to hydras. If hydras lose air attacking ability but can gain +50 HP and stim, what zerg player would refuse? Corruptors will counter air and hydras counter ground units. |
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| Feb 9th, 12:48am | |
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lol man what zerg player wont kick your but if hydras go gtg only :D they are like the first and only GtA unit zerg has that can deal with air properly ...
and you still talk how terran will aways make marrines ...(man thats like you say that zerg will aways make zerglings lol ) and btw zerglings own marauders i gues you dont have even the tiniest bit of imagination... And since when does helions have 6 range ??? i aways thought it had 4 range (hydras have 6 i know that for sure) even in BR4 helions have less range than stalkers (again 6 range)
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"You can't outrun Death forever.But you can make the Bastard work for it." |
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| Feb 9th, 01:12am | |
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actually spore crawler is pretty good.
400 HP, mobile, 100 mineral... yeah, GtA hydra seem bad, but if 125HP + stim hydras massively attack before Terran reaches tier 3, zerg might do really well. Speaking of GtA, I think Maruader/Marine combo against Zerg will be pretty successful before Zerg reaches tier 2 mutalisks. Although marauders don;t have splash attack or melee attack like firebat, they are good counter against melee units because they have stim and slowing attack. Zerglings will always own marauders? Not so. It depends on many factors, including terrain. In flat and open terrain, marauders will get more damage from zerglings. In cramped choke points or near cliffs, marauders will be able to defend well. Also, Terran player will strategically make formations with his units so that they won't be easily surrounded. And be civil please...saying "you dont have even the tiniest bit of imagination" doesn't attack the argument, only the person. Hey, you don't even know me. |
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| Feb 9th, 02:24am | |
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So many good points in this thread, though I would remind people that the almighty Beta hath yet to be played! So don't get too aggressive in your push for unit changes.
On the flip side though, those of you saying "we have no beta, we don't know anything so hush!" I would have to disagree. Most of us here are talking and theorycrafting for something to do, not because we are rabid hardliners with a desire to make our race OP. I read these threads to learn, and everyone should approach them with that mentality. Person X says "OMG X unit is OP" and then Person Y says "OMG A, B, and C counter X" and guess what. Everyone learns something. Whether it is something they didn't know about a particular unit, or whether their perception of that unit is changed. The information can be dissected, and disseminated. Discouraging theorycrafting, on the basis of not having experienced Beta is foolish imo. It shuts down creative discussion, and ruins everyone's chance to gain perspective. In all honesty, don't let yourselves become polarized into differing groups by these threads. Guess what? Nothing suggested here is likely to be implemented, unless it is already Blizzard's intent do do so, however you can all be damn sure that Blizzard will have this game balanced. So read these threads, take home the points that each person makes, and make your own in return. But don't get stressed, or heated because its very unlikely that anything ridiculously unbalanced will happen, and you will have worked yourself up over nothing. Edit -- I know that was a bit offtopic, but it seems that the last few pages tempers are becoming shorter and shorter. Just trying to remind everyone that its not even a game. Its a forum, about a game that doesn't quite exist. Apologies for the offtopic. Cheers, Tim |
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| Feb 9th, 04:46am | |
Well Flash, I don't know the dates, but as long as I have been here (4 months), Hydra, marine, and hellion has had 5 range, stalker and marauder has had 6. I know the armory isn't perfect and some information in the tech trees or abilities haven't been updated, but as far as the range, damage, and health of units, I am quite sure we have the best information available (thanks Gear!). I would suggest looking at the guides for stats information before replying (like I do) if you don't quite have all the information memorized.
Hmm, it is true that marauders can not shoot air, and it is important. The problem lies in that if the marauder is too good at killing everything not air, they make it very difficult to counter as a tier 2 unit. Even after you do get air (and we haven't seen much air in the BRs), let's not forget that air is always expensive and has plenty of cheap low tier counters in all three races. Plus, I think most people are ignoring the huge impact that medivacs may have on marauders, because they are more concerned about the mid game play. As for zealots countering marauders, they do seem really good on paper. However, like the archon, they are only good if they can get in range. I believe it has been proven that the slow does affect them, and 6 range is a long ways to go at reduced speed. There is also a video somewhere showing this. Remeber also that on paper zerglings rip marines to shreds, but that in reality (partially due to pathing) a critical mass of marines will beat any number of zerglings. This is the advantage of range, and at tier 2, no unit beats the marauder's. With charge, zealots should do very well against marauders, but others have shown that this comes out significantly later than marauders. |
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| Feb 9th, 05:16am | |
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I have a unit-suggestion, replace the marauder with the 'noogard'.
Lore The noogard is a fallen marine, that is placed within a cybernetic exo-skeleton that makes him half-machine, half-man, able to continue his service for the greater good of mankind. Stats The noogard should deal quite a hefty sum of damage, but cost just slightly more than the marauder, so that the noogard doesn't end up causing as much controversy as the marauder has. Therefore the following tested stats should be fine: Cost: 125/50 ( a little bit higher ) Health: 100 / 80 ( the noogard is protected by stolen shield technology ) Damage: 20 ( but not additional damage bonus ) Range: 4~6 Since it's a mech-type warrior, it should also be slightly faster than regular units. Unlike the marauder, the noogard is also able to shoot at aerial targets. To balance this, stim should be removed. Which I think is perfectly fine. Compared to the marauder, it becomes obvious that the noogard was much more 'balanced'.  |
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